Quote:
Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub  For people like Robert, it would save you a lot of energy and time if you just ignore him and let him be, especially when he's not even directly responding to you. He seems to have an idea that everyone in the Middle East is affiliated with Al Qaeda and believes that everything the U.S. touches turns into gold. He dismisses all evidence that opposes his short-sighted biased views and continues to have a romanticized view of his own country. |
Prove the posts wrong then. You are incredibly stupid, you get wound up over news stories that I simply place in this thread but you have no problems with the murdering that goes on in the name of Islam. Your liberalism will your downfall. Here's another diddy for you, sounds like you can identify. There's alot of big-boy words in here so try to keep up:
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
QUESTION: Who is the biggest killer of Muslims today?
ANSWER: Other Muslims.
Here are current events that should be considered. During the last 15 years or so, the civil war between the Islamic fundamentalists and Algerian government has cost some 120,000 lives. In the US, we lament the loss of 3000 lives. Consider however that devout Muslims have killed tens of thousands of their fellow Algerian Muslims.
In Egypt, the fundamentalists have murdered tourists, Christians, and moderate / liberal Muslims. Even the Nobel Prize winning writer, Naguib Mahfouz, a nearly blind, moderate Muslim, was knifed during his daily walk in the streets of Cairo. Iranian fundamentalist Muslims have murdered thousands of their "less than Muslim" Muslims, along with Bahai and Christians.
The unjust Jewish oppression of the Palestinians, (both Muslim and Christian), pales in comparison with the enormity that has occurred in Sudan, Iraq, Iran, and Algeria.
Leupp wrote concerning the term "jihad":
The U.S. encouraged them to view their war as a jihad (in the sense of a "Holy War," a meaning the term usually does NOT carry),
COMMENT:
This is Leupp’s biggest error. Muslim fundamentalists need no encouraging by the "kuffar" to strive in jihad. Their holy literature is filled with encouragement to violent jihad. There are entire "books" within the Sahih Hadith collections on jihad. Jihad is primarily warfare carried out to further Islam. The word literally means, "striving," but in application it most often means warfare to spread Islam. Below is a quote from an Islamic book of jurisprudence:
RELIANCE OF THE TRAVELER, PAGE 599:
"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word "mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the great jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self, (nafs), which is why the Prophet said as he was returning from jihad.
The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
1) Fighting is prescribed for you (2:216)
2) Slay them wherever you find them (4:89)
3) Fight the idolaters utterly (9:36)
and such Hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet said:
"I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah."
Below is a quote from the Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam, page 89
DJIHAD, holy war. The spread of Islam by arms is a religious duty upon Muslims in general. It narrowly escaped being a sixth "rukn", or fundamental duty, and is indeed still so regarded by the descendants of the Kharidjis. The position was reached gradually but quickly. In the Meccan Suras of the Kur’an patience under attack is taught; no other attitude was possible. But at Madina the right to repel attack appears, and gradually it became a prescribed duty to fight against and subdue the hostile Meccans. Whether Muhammad himself recognized that his position implied steady and unprovoked war against the unbelieving world until it was subdued to Islam may be in doubt. Traditions are explicit on the point; but the Kuranic passages speak always of the unbelievers who are to be subdued as dangerous or faithless. Still, the story of his writing to the powers around him shows that such a universal position was implicit in his mind, and it certainly developed immediately after his death, when the Muslim armies advanced out of Arabia. It is now a "fard ‘ala ‘l-kifaya, a duty in general on all male, free, adult Muslims, sane in mind and body and having means enough to reach the Muslim army, yet not a duty necessarily incumbent on every individual but sufficiently performed when done by a certain number. So it must continue to be done until the whole world is under the rule of Islam."
POINT 8:
8. Muslims of the world have many thoroughly LEGITIMATE reasons to resent U.S. policy. Nearly absolute support for the settler state of Israel in its relationship with the indigenous Palestinian people
COMMENT:
Leupp’s point has merit. I do not believe that we should give the Israelis a blank check to do all that they please. But on the other hand, other people in the world have legitimate reasons to resent U.S. policy. These people don’t fly planes into our cities!
And, if Muslims are looking for someone to resent, why aren’t the Muslims taking action against Saddam Hussein? How many Sunni Muslim Kurds has he murdered? How many southern Shiite Muslims has he eliminated? How many of his own people has Saddam butchered? So, let me ask you, when was the last time you heard of Muslims in Cairo, Amman, or Algiers, or even in America protesting what Saddam has done? Instead they rally to support him! Why are Muslims supporting the biggest killer of Muslims alive in the world today? That is a point Leupp should be making.
Further, perhaps Leupp can answer how resenting US policy causes Muslims in Pakistan to throw grenades into Pakistani Christian hospitals, causes them murder Pakistani charity workers, or causes them to murder 11 French scientists? Can Leupp explain how resenting US policy causes Indonesian Muslims to destroy some 1000 churches over the last 10 years? Why does resentment of US policy cause Muslims in Nigeria to issue death sentences against journalists? Perhaps Leupp can tell us why resentment of US policy is just cause for Muslims to murder a Christian nurse in Lebanon, and the three Christian doctors, providing much free medical care for the Yemeni people? The real motivation for these Muslim’s violent actions is Islam. The Yemeni murderer said he killed the doctors to be "closer to Allah".
POINT 9:
9. Muslims typically DO NOT hate the U.S. as an abstract concept, reject U.S. culture in toto, or seek the destruction of American civilization.
COMMENT:
I agree, but this is another generalization. There are one billion Muslims and they have many viewpoints. Many Muslims do hate America, and our culture, and would love to see us obliterated. If you read the reports coming out of the Mideast, the hatred for all things American is growing, not subsiding. We should understand how real Islam relates to countries that are non-Islamic. We should not seek to excuse Muslim terrorists and their crimes merely because they "resent" us.
POINT 10:
10. Muslims and Jews in Palestine/Israel have NOT always hated one another, and the current Middle East conflict does NOT go back many centuries. Rather, it began with the influx of foreign Jews into the region after World War I
COMMENT:
Leupp presents a tailored argument. "Always hated each other" is a pretty long time. There was conflict between the Jews and Arabs long before WW1. Dennis Prager and J. Telushkin document in "Why the Jews" that Muslims oppressed the Jews throughout Islam’s rule over them even during the 19th century. In their conclusion they write:
"Only through an understanding of the deep theological roots of Muslim anti-Semitism and an awareness of the continuous history of Muslims anti-Semitism can present day Muslim hatred of Israel be understood. Only then does one recognize how false are the claims of Israel’s enemies that prior to Zionism Jews and Muslims lived in harmony and that neither nor Muslims have ever harbored Jew-hatred. The creation of the Jewish state in no way created Muslims Jew-hatred, it merely intensified it and gave it a new focus."
The authors cite Albert Memmi, a French Jewish novelist who grew up in North Africa. He wrote:
"Roughly speaking and in the best of cases, the Jew is protected like a dog which is part of man’s property, but if he raises his head or acts like a man, then he must be beaten so that he will always remember his status."
And, Memmi’s point parallels my position: Islam teaches humiliating subjection of Jews and Christians in the Quran.
Before the end of WW2, Muslims in Palestine were persecuting Jews. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem visited Hitler and spoke in Germany, offering to assist with the extermination of Jews in the Mideast. See this web page:
Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini Leupp concludes:
Finally: In understanding Islam, Americans should give some thought to one of the pivotal episodes in world history, the Crusades,
Let me ask "why?" As Leupp notes, the crusades were some 1000 years ago, (Leupp may not believe it but Americans did NOT take part in the Crusades, J ). Isn’t it a bit long for Muslims to carry a grudge? And, is it really a grudge that the Muslims carry, or just a pretense used to justify hatred and criminal activity?
Instead of blaming America or Christianity for what the Muslim terrorists have done, Leupp should blame the terrorists. It is not a question of "What have we done to make them hate us?" Rather it is a question of, "what motivates Muslim hatred?" Leupp should hold the perpetrators of the crime responsible, not the victims. Leupp should expect some degree of rationality on the part of the Muslims.
CONCLUSION
Leupp’s statements regarding Islam are half-truths laced with significant omissions. Actual Islamic content is meager. He used a facade of "educating" Americans about Islam to criticize people and aspects of American society he detests. Educating people about Islam is not his real interest, but venting odium is his passion. By failing to examine Islamic teachings he trivialized the deaths of some 3000 Americans and the suffering of so many more who have experienced loss. Leupp laments the ignorance of American high school students, "I am painfully aware of this ignorance". Leupp’s Islamic work does nothing to alleviate that ignorance.
Islamic sources should be studied dispassionately and their context, scope, and application understood. Professors who teach on Islam should know what they are talking about. Remember, Muslim fundamentalists declare they have theological justification to murder Americans. Since they are the ones carrying out the violence, their Islamic perspectives must be presented and understood. Do not depend on Muslims living in the West to do the explaining. Muslim terrorists do not play to a Western audience to gain approval.
I believe that Leupp does want to see America do what is moral and right, and in his venting he makes points worthy of consideration. But Monday morning quarterbacks are in no short supply. Professors with integrity who are willing to present what the Islamic source materials actually teach are needed. If our country continues to ignore the very real threat of the real Islam, i.e. the Islam of Muhammad, then we will be struck more severely the next time.