Car Repo...

Originally Posted by Robert

We need to devastate the region and cripple insurgent hotbeds. Do not fight a street war with guerrillas, use air power! Use it swiftly and deadly.

While I agree with you that it would be an effective means, America would be crucified on the world stage if the BBC and other major world news networks started showing dead innocent civilians. I think if they went in with assassins they might have better luck. You can spot a American/foreign soldier a mile away in their uniform. Instead, do targeted assassinations against the leadership using common citizens. The number one rule in a protest/riot, is to find and isolate the leaders and instigators. Use the factions against one another to assassinate each others leadership like is going on in Palestine right now. I can't say for sure that this would be effective, but its seems like a viable alternative.

Originally Posted by Robert

These people only respect power, they prey on those who do not show it or use it.

Having had close Arab/Persian friends, this is so true. They do not think like the average American. America was founded on Christian values. A logical person would assume it would be smart to first use reason and common sense to negotiate a compromise. These people have neither. Their thinking is so twisted and "Evil". The hypocrisy in Islam is unbelievable. While I believe there are good intentioned Muslims, the culture (more so than the religion) has enough people believe that extremist behavior is normal and acceptable. It's one thing to have a few fucked up people, but thousands? And the HATE in these people reminds me of the devil himself. I mean what fucking culture in except the Muslim world do you see people walking down the street with assault rifles firing them into the air either in celebration or mourning. That is fucked up. I think the key to changing the culture will involve empowering women. The men are fucked in the head, and as long as the culture promotes the oppression of women, they won't begin to evolve beyond their current position. Even in America, women are notorious at pushing for social reform, whereas men as more concerned with economic and security issues --it's just the nature of who we are as men and women. As long as a bunch of Mohammed Mohammed's are in power, that country will not evolve much past they have in the past 3500 years. Sure, take a religion that started 400 years after Christ, steal all Christ's teachings, put your own spin on them and call it a religion --an evil gentile one. Some "prophet". I mean, a bunch of virgins waiting for you in heaven after you blow yourself up --fuck off. What's in it for the women --a bunch of virgin guys that haven't raped countless women?

Originally Posted by Robert

Tactically I am against the war, but i still believe in the purpose. Removing Saddam was A GOOD THING no matter what CNN wants to tell you. His power alone was a weapon of mass destruction. taking the fight to the terrorists on Middle Eastern soil is also the correct move.

I agree completely. When America does nothing, world countries look to America to police the injustices of minority groups in developing countries. When America does step in, the are condemned by the world and accused of being self-serving. EVERY country is self-serving in one way or another -- AND THAT'S OK! Just don't be a hypocrite about it.

Originally Posted by Robert

But, this is a war, not a bake sale. Use the full military might and resources available. If not, you are right unfortunatley, we should not be there. Like Patton said war is like pregnancy, you cant be a little of either. Either you are at war or you are playing croquet. Which is it?

I agree in-so-much as this should be the approach in the early stages of the war. Police in America are trained to show restraint even when someone is verbally abusing them, or committing minor lawless acts. We must recognize everything can't be our definition of perfect overnight. I honestly can not see anything changing for the next 5-10 years. The same fighting will continue, and America's presence is fueling a lot of it. Time to get out. We got Saddam out of power and killed his son's. Continue to assassinate terrorists by supporting opposing factions, and work to support a stable strong/secure government, but get the vast majority of the troops out.

Originally Posted by Robert

Now as far as gun control, you are misguided my Canadian friend. This is also an example of how the criminals will prey on the weak.

When I lived in Canada people weren't coming to my door preying on the weak with their guns. Sorry, this conspiracy theory is misguided. In fact, guns didn't even cross your mind except for gangs in the ghetto. I never "felt safer" then when I was in Canada. The crazy liberals were far scarier -talk about left-wing extremists. I'm happy to say there are conservatives in Canada, they all just happen to be in Alberta. Every Canadian soldier in Afganistan is either from Alberta, the maritime provinces, or rural towns.

Originally Posted by Robert

Cocaine is illegal right? Is it available? Of course it is. Do you think guns would be different?

I agree, the guns will always exist. But for 99% of the population, other than the arguments from the previous post, what do people NEED guns for? It is a false illusion that it will make them safer. Wrong. And research studies from around the world have shown this.

Originally Posted by Robert

I don't even believe in hunting but I do think guns need to be legal. Make the punishments for crimes more if you wanna make an impact. Fuck probation too. If you want to commit crimes, rot in hell. Thats what we need to do.

I agree. Use a firearm in a crime, and we'll throw the book at you.

Don't agree with making guns legal though. Put it this way. If smoking never existed, and then came on the market today, and we knew ahead of time the damage it could do, do you think the FDA would legalize it. Of course not. By banning smoking in public spaces, banning all tobacco advertising (even inside the store), and lobbying film makers not to glorify the habit, we can all but reduce the numbers of smokers exponentially. Will some people smoke. Yes, but they will almost be made to feel like social outcasts.

Putting more and more restrictions and rules on purchasing a firearm would lessen the numbers. Illegal guns would still always exist. But less is less, no matter how you look at it.

Originally Posted by Straight Outta Wedlock

Mexico has gun control and they are running up to America in droves. If gun control is so great, why don't people go the fuck back to Mexico then.

Because Mexican's are fucking craaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzy! Have you seen the way they drive in Mexico

[Robert]

Originally Posted by reply

While I agree with you that it would be an effective means, America would be crucified on the world stage if the BBC and other major world news networks started showing dead innocent civilians. I think if they went in with assassins they might have better luck. You can spot a American/foreign soldier a mile away in their uniform. Instead, do targeted assassinations against the leadership using common citizens. The number one rule in a protest/riot, is to find and isolate the leaders and instigators. Use the factions against one another to assassinate each others leadership like is going on in Palestine right now. I can't say for sure that this would be effective, but its seems like a viable alternative.


Having had close Arab/Persian friends, this is so true. They do not think like the average American. America was founded on Christian values. A logical person would assume it would be smart to first use reason and common sense to negotiate a compromise. These people have neither. Their thinking is so twisted and "Evil". The hypocrisy in Islam is unbelievable. While I believe there are good intentioned Muslims, the culture (more so than the religion) has enough people believe that extremist behavior is normal and acceptable. It's one thing to have a few fucked up people, but thousands? And the HATE in these people reminds me of the devil himself. I mean what fucking culture in except the Muslim world do you see people walking down the street with assault rifles firing them into the air either in celebration or mourning. That is fucked up. I think the key to changing the culture will involve empowering women. The men are fucked in the head, and as long as the culture promotes the oppression of women, they won't begin to evolve beyond their current position. Even in America, women are notorious at pushing for social reform, whereas men as more concerned with economic and security issues --it's just the nature of who we are as men and women. As long as a bunch of Mohammed Mohammed's are in power, that country will not evolve much past they have in the past 3500 years. Sure, take a religion that started 400 years after Christ, steal all Christ's teachings, put your own spin on them and call it a religion --an evil gentile one. Some "prophet". I mean, a bunch of virgins waiting for you in heaven after you blow yourself up --fuck off. What's in it for the women --a bunch of virgin guys that haven't raped countless women?


I agree completely. When America does nothing, world countries look to America to police the injustices of minority groups in developing countries. When America does step in, the are condemned by the world and accused of being self-serving. EVERY country is self-serving in one way or another -- AND THAT'S OK! Just don't be a hypocrite about it.

I agree in-so-much as this should be the approach in the early stages of the war. Police in America are trained to show restraint even when someone is verbally abusing them, or committing minor lawless acts. We must recognize everything can't be our definition of perfect overnight. I honestly can not see anything changing for the next 5-10 years. The same fighting will continue, and America's presence is fueling a lot of it. Time to get out. We got Saddam out of power and killed his son's. Continue to assassinate terrorists by supporting opposing factions, and work to support a stable strong/secure government, but get the vast majority of the troops out.



When I lived in Canada people weren't coming to my door preying on the weak with their guns. Sorry, this conspiracy theory is misguided. In fact, guns didn't even cross your mind except for gangs in the ghetto. I never "felt safer" then when I was in Canada. The crazy liberals were far scarier -talk about left-wing extremists. I'm happy to say there are conservatives in Canada, they all just happen to be in Alberta. Every Canadian soldier in Afganistan is either from Alberta, the maritime provinces, or rural towns.



I agree, the guns will always exist. But for 99% of the population, other than the arguments from the previous post, what do people NEED guns for? It is a false illusion that it will make them safer. Wrong. And research studies from around the world have shown this.



I agree. Use a firearm in a crime, and we'll throw the book at you.

Don't agree with making guns legal though. Put it this way. If smoking never existed, and then came on the market today, and we knew ahead of time the damage it could do, do you think the FDA would legalize it. Of course not. By banning smoking in public spaces, banning all tobacco advertising (even inside the store), and lobbying film makers not to glorify the habit, we can all but reduce the numbers of smokers exponentially. Will some people smoke. Yes, but they will almost be made to feel like social outcasts.

Putting more and more restrictions and rules on purchasing a firearm would lessen the numbers. Illegal guns would still always exist. But less is less, no matter how you look at it.

I will give you credit, you do lay out an intelligent, non-emotional argument against guns. Let me ask you this though, your Prime Minister in Canada I am sure has a version of the Secret Service protecting him right. And it is safe to assume these men and women have guns on them. Why would they need guns in a society where there is gun control?

[mussolini]

Originally Posted by alive

True, but I'd rather be an alive pussy, then an another unnecessary death.

The U.S. has an all volunteer military

[Robert]

I hate to put it this way but often issues like the death penalty and gun control are best decided when you put yourself in that situation. For those of you against guns, let me put a scenario out there. You come home one night from work and your wife is being raped by 2 men at knifepoint and you confront them. Would you be in a better offensive position with a gun or not?

[mussolini]

Originally Posted by Robert

I hate to put it this way but often issues like the death penalty and gun control are best decided when you put yourself in that situation. For those of you against guns, let me put a scenario out there. You come home one night from work and your wife is being raped by 2 men at knifepoint and you confront them. Would you be in a better offensive position with a gun or not?

The better position would be on top of his wife. I apologize, rape jokes aren't funny.

Originally Posted by Robert

I hate to put it this way but often issues like the death penalty and gun control are best decided when you put yourself in that situation. For those of you against guns, let me put a scenario out there. You come home one night from work and your wife is being raped by 2 men at knifepoint and you confront them. Would you be in a better offensive position with a gun or not?

Robert - good point and I complete with you 100%. However the problem isn't that there are certain situations that make where guns are warranted. the problem is how as a government do you design laws that appease the population and also when the laws are passed that criminals still don;t find loopholes. the laws can be designed for this situation but how do you protect the constitution and make a law that can put guns in the right peoples hands.

one last point robert....

take abortion for example. if a mentally retarded person becomes pregannt or someone becomes pregnant through a rape - shouldn't they have a choice? if someone is under the age of 18 and is pregnant, can they make a decision regarding another life when they can't make decisions regarding their own yet? the problem is when do you cut off what is allowed and what isn't.....

Originally Posted by Robert

I will give you credit, you do lay out an intelligent, non-emotional argument against guns. Let me ask you this though, your Prime Minister in Canada I am sure has a version of the Secret Service protecting him right. And it is safe to assume these men and women have guns on them. Why would they need guns in a society where there is gun control?

Very good point, but as mentioned, no system is 100% perfect and even in a society where legislators have banned guns, there will always still be some wacko out there bent on anarchy. Look at Tim McVeigh. I don't have an eloquent argument for your point other than to say "for me" anyway, guns in the hands of an average joe is unnecessary. Firearms in the hands of trained professionals (ie Police) who more-and-more nowadays are held to account for their actions, makes sense. That is assuming there are checks and balances in place to ensure they aren't overstepping their authority or using excessive force. Having lived in Canada, I had a cop buddy who told me they had to write a report every time they pulled their gun from the holster --even if no shots were fired. If the inconvenience of having to defend your actions in a report isn't enough of a pain-in-the-neck, I don't know what is. Again, no system is perfect. I've just seen a different side most Americans don't get the chance to experience and I was pleasantly surprised.

Originally Posted by Robert

I hate to put it this way but often issues like the death penalty and gun control are best decided when you put yourself in that situation. For those of you against guns, let me put a scenario out there. You come home one night from work and your wife is being raped by 2 men at knifepoint and you confront them. Would you be in a better offensive position with a gun or not?

The only reason I dislike this example is again because this example is used time and time again to defend handgun ownership for the sake of safety. IF this was a likely and common scenario, it would be easier for me to empathize with your point. I remember watching and reading something on this very point which debunked this myth. In fact, in the majority of cases where this would be witnessed by the husband, it wasn't rape at all, it was cheating, but consent which was later rescinded to save the relationship. So for all the points mentioned, this is a very weak argument for me to defend ownership of a firearm. I hate liberals as much as the next guy, but for me, this isn't about partisanship but rather doing the right thing based not only on commonsense, but research and real-life statistics. So many of the, WHAT IF's, are just that...what if...