Jill Petty

[betteroffnow]

It is funny how pharmarep brings up his pseudo-facts. He fails to mention that out of the millions who are counted as not having health-care in this country, 12 million are illegal immigrants and another 1.5 million are self-insured because they are rich enough to be. The fact is no one is ever refused medical treatment in this country and we do have the best medical system in the world. Pharmarep move to Canada, Cuba or Mexico if you don't like it here. At least here I won't get arrested for wanting to go to the doctor of my choice. Government does not have a responsibility to insure you. This country exists for people to take care of themselves. Government only screws that up. So take your dumb socialist ass and move north or south of here. Do us all a favor. And then when some country comes to attack your newfound home you can come crawling back on your hands and knees begging the USA to protect you.

[betteroffnow]

Anyone who pays even the slightest attention to the health-care debate in this country probably knows that there are "44 million uninsured Americans." The figure was all but shouted from the rooftops during the recent Cover the Uninsured Week. It is standard boilerplate for John Kerry's stump speeches. Hillary Clinton, in her recent screed, was unwilling to round off the number: "Some 43.6 million Americans are uninsured, and the vast majority of them are in working families."




The existence of the 44-million figure is a tribute to Benjamin Disraeli's quip that "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." If one accepts the Current Population Survey's numbers (the source for the 44-million statistic), there are in fact closer to 35 million uninsured Americans. Over 20 percent of the uninsured in this country are not citizens.

Yet there is good reason to be skeptical of the CPS's numbers. The CPS is intended to measure the number of people who have been uninsured for an entire year. One problem with the CPS statistic is that it includes both those who are insured for a short time and those who are chronically uninsured (defined as being uninsured for at least a year). Many people go without insurance for a few months often as the result of being between jobs. The CPS statistic of 44 million does not make that distinction.

Another drawback is that CPS asks respondents to recall their insurance status over the last twelve months, increasing the probability of sampling error due to respondents' memory lapses. Last year a paper from the Congressional Budget Office contrasted the CPS with two other surveys, the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) and the Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP). MEPS and SIPP track their respondents every few months, so the error due to memory lapse should be minimized. Interestingly, MEPS reported 31 million chronically uninsured, while SIPP reported only 21 million.

Yet even the numbers reported by the MEPS and SIPP surveys overstate the number of uninsured. Some respondents who receive Medicaid may say they are uninsured because of the stigma associated with the Medicaid program. Studies suggest that this may result in an undercounting of the insured by 12 to 15 percent. According to the CBO, "the number of non-elderly people who are enrolled in Medicaid at any time during the year could be undercounted in population surveys by about 4 to 5 million."

Another wrinkle occurs in the definition of the uninsured. There are many people who are eligible for Medicaid but are not enrolled in the program. Some argue that they should be counted as uninsured, while others argue that they should not. The latter group seems to have the stronger case, since such people can receive Medicaid coverage retroactively for health-care expenses. At present, there is no exact data on the number of people who are eligible for Medicaid but not enrolled. The most recent study, from 1994, estimated that about 2.9 million children who were uninsured were eligible for Medicaid.

Finally, it is important to note that, according to the SIPP survey, over 18 percent of the chronically uninsured say that they have gone without insurance because either they have not needed it or do not believe in it. When the various factors are accounted for, it is possible that the true number of the chronically uninsured is 12 to15 million.

Does the actual number matter? Either way, one might object, there are still millions who lack health insurance. Actually, it matters a great deal, because those who are most likely to tout the 44-million-uninsured statistic also tend to be the advocates of wholesale reform of the health-care system, usually of the government-run variety. A larger number gives their arguments more weight.

Second, understanding the actual magnitude of the problem gives us better direction in terms of policy. Of those chronically uninsured, the vast majority are poor, but over 60 percent are under the age of 35. Thus, the uninsured may be a largely healthy population that could afford to purchase health-care in a more consumer-driven system. Indeed, many of those currently purchasing insurance with health-savings accounts were previously uninsured.

Whatever the solution, we should not let inflated statistics lead us into adopting misguided health-care policies.


— David Hogberg is a research analyst at the Public Interest Institute, an Iowa-based think tank. His blog site is "Cornfield Commentary."



PHARMAREP = OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

[pharmarep]

Originally Posted by betteroffnow

Anyone who pays even the slightest attention to the health-care debate in this country probably knows that there are "44 million uninsured Americans." The figure was all but shouted from the rooftops during the recent Cover the Uninsured Week. It is standard boilerplate for John Kerry's stump speeches. Hillary Clinton, in her recent screed, was unwilling to round off the number: "Some 43.6 million Americans are uninsured, and the vast majority of them are in working families."

PHARMAREP = OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

No need to quote the entire rant. typical, don't believe the stats and spin them how you want. 18k people, legal citizens,die every year because of no health insurance. Health is a basic right for all, asshole. I agree with capitalism, but it has no sense on being involved in health care. that's the ONLY area I think Government should be more involved. Don't try to label me as a "socialist" because of one viewpoint that makes sense. You aren't even IN healthcare but yet you think you know more? You don't talk to docs every day and see the actual stats. You just google what you want to find and copy and paste it on here. genius. pretty good quote from David HogBerg from the national review who is a Reagan enthusiast. nice source asshole.

David Hogberg on Health Insurance on National Review Online

they are not pseudo-stats, they're published all over the place asshole. This is how you people work, you find one person that disagrees and you quote them. Just like global warming where virtually all scientists agree upon, you all pick the one person from an obscure university that denies global warming.

Also, because you listen to politicians and talk radio about the health care debate means that you know less than the average person waiting 3 hours in the waiting room for a doctor. Or the person who isn't a "good" candidate for an organ transplant. Or the elderly who can't get a life-saving drug because the cost is too high. Or the man who can't pay for a new heart becuase it costs $100k. You are a real selfish asshole to place money and "freedom" of choice in place of life. YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ASSHOLE!!! the ins companies decide that for you. You didn't own shit. If you had any decency in your heart you would see this country is fucked up. It's not unpatriotic. It's the american people being dooped and ill-informed people who care more about the economy than life are what makes this country the MOST hated country in the world.

One last point, dipshit. People who transition between jobs have insurance, it's called COBRA. Or, more often than that, the company that he/she left pays for insurance on average for 6 months before pulling the plug. Spin it however you want, but you don't know shit. You're on the outside looking in with a pretty good quote from David HogBerg from the national review.

[pharmarep]

Originally Posted by betteroffnow

...This country exists for people to take care of themselves. Government only screws that up. So take your dumb socialist ass and move north or south of here. Do us all a favor. And then when some country comes to attack your newfound home you can come crawling back on your hands and knees begging the USA to protect you.

This is great. do you know how to do any operations? "take care of themselves." yes, I agree...economically!!! Not healthwise, asshole. You don't even care about people. fucking pathetic. USA doesn't protect anybody unless it's in USA's best interest. You are realy just spewing crap from conservative speakers. that's it. You really should kill yourself.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by pharmarep

This is great. do you know how to do any operations? "take care of themselves." yes, I agree...economically!!! Not healthwise, asshole. You don't even care about people. fucking pathetic. USA doesn't protect anybody unless it's in USA's best interest. You are realy just spewing crap from conservative speakers. that's it. You really should kill yourself.

I can understand your passion on this issue. Since I have never been uninsured, it is difficult to understand the plight of those without healthcare. This is neither a Republican or Democrat issue though, as much as the Democrat Party would have you think. The bottom line, in America you work to get things. Included is healthcare. No politician wants to see that change by the way, regardless of party.

[pharmarep]

Originally Posted by Robert

I can understand your passion on this issue. Since I have never been uninsured, it is difficult to understand the plight of those without healthcare. This is neither a Republican or Democrat issue though, as much as the Democrat Party would have you think. The bottom line, in America you work to get things. Included is healthcare. No politician wants to see that change by the way, regardless of party.

I agree, Kucinich is the only one out there that has a real plan and there's no way he's getting in. the healthcare won't drastically change and there will always be people dying because of lack of insurance. There's too much money involved...like an out of control locomotive. Thank you for at least caring about those without insurance. For a family of 5 the average cost premium is in the $700 range. That's tough.

[betteroffnow]

there pharmadork you just summed it up by saying you are a Kucinich fan so now we all know you are completely whacked out. Go put some more tin foil on your head so the George Bush/Dick Cheney mind-reading CIA sattelites can't read your thoughts. You need to call your psychiatrist I think your meds are getting low.

[pharmarep]

Originally Posted by betteroffnow

there pharmadork you just summed it up by saying you are a Kucinich fan so now we all know you are completely whacked out. Go put some more tin foil on your head so the George Bush/Dick Cheney mind-reading CIA sattelites can't read your thoughts. You need to call your psychiatrist I think your meds are getting low.

fucking idiot. I didn't say I was a fan, but he's the only one who has a specific plan. I'm never going to vote for this wee little man. Nice try, though, to attempt to belittle me by making a reference to "conspiracy theory" because that's the only source of information you get it seems... Fox news and B-rated movies. Your arguments are dwindling in power with no substance. You have an actual comeback or are you going to just attack the messenger and not the message? sounds like Bush/Cheney to me.

Get back on point or go to a political rant. dumb fuck

[betteroffnow]

poor Pharmadork he knows that socialized medicine will never be allowed in this country and he hates the idea of someone being able to make their own health care choices. He wants more socialism and less freedom. He wants us all beholden to a government master. His little dream called the Soviet Union died and now he wants it over here. What a pathetic little communist you are pharmadork.