VOTE DEMOCRAT IT IS EASIER THAN THINKING

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Robert

As long as he aims the missles and bombs at both Sunnis and Shiites, who gives a shite!

There lies the problem. That's how ignorant most people in the U.S. military are as well. They still don't know to this day. They just know, if they look Arab, then we shoot and bomb them.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

For about a year, I had decided that I was going to vote democrat no matter what. But now, after seeing how Hillary has sunk so low and how Obama is nothing but a conformist preacher whom belongs in a church rather than the white house. First Hillary Clinton calls for boycotting the open ceremony of the Olympic games just to appease the people, primarily the retarded liberal hippies, even though she full well knows the history of China and Tibet and the current slandering of China by the Western mass media. And now, Obama decides that he better get on the bandwagon for some political points too! Well, fuck you Obama. Your true colors have shown.

McCain 08. No one else seems to be giving a damn about Iraq and Iran, but are devoting all of their attention to Tibet even though they don't know anything about the situation and history.

Fuck you hippies. I'm going to save more of my own money and pay less taxes. Screw your education and screw your health care.

Bombs away!

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

There lies the problem. That's how ignorant most people in the U.S. military are as well. They still don't know to this day. They just know, if they look Arab, then we shoot and bomb them.

That is way off. I just got back from Iraq and while yes you can not differentiate a Shiite or a Sunni by how they look, talk, or dress. There are Shiite and Sunni regions and neighborhoods in Iraq, and members of small communities may know the religious affiliations of their neighbors. You might also get some idea of which sect an Iraqi belongs to from his family name. Chalabi, for example, is a well-known Shiite name, and Pachachi tends to be Sunni. The military over there works very closely with the Iraqi's of both religions, believe it or not, to weed out the insurgents. They do not target any Iraqi just because he is Iraqi.

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Dom182

That is way off. I just got back from Iraq and while yes you can not differentiate a Shiite or a Sunni by how they look, talk, or dress. There are Shiite and Sunni regions and neighborhoods in Iraq, and members of small communities may know the religious affiliations of their neighbors. You might also get some idea of which sect an Iraqi belongs to from his family name. Chalabi, for example, is a well-known Shiite name, and Pachachi tends to be Sunni. The military over there works very closely with the Iraqi's of both religions, believe it or not, to weed out the insurgents. They do not target any Iraqi just because he is Iraqi.

Explain to me why many soldiers have testified to shooting Iraqi civilians then. If you guys are doing such a great job, then why do all of the civilians hate your guts? Why don't they perceive you as liberators?

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

Explain to me why many soldiers have testified to shooting Iraqi civilians then. If you guys are doing such a great job, then why do all of the civilians hate your guts? Why don't they perceive you as liberators?

Now you are drinking the media Kool-Aid. Have there been shootings of civilians? Yes and is is heartbreaking that it happens. Does it happen a lot, NO! Don't say many because there haven't been many. over 130k troops there and civilians being killed is vary rare. That is not to say it is not serious anytime that it occurs.

All you see is the crap fed to you by the media. Don't tell me you "know" this is going on because you don't. I just spent 3 weeks in Iraq. The civilians certainly do not hate us.

We were in a town called Ba'qubah, just north of Bagdad and had civilians swamping our vehicles as we drove into town. Children especially love the soilders, granted that's mostly because they all carry candy and hand it out to them. I spent three days in this town and received nothing but cooperation from the locals. They offered their homes for us, we bivuaced while there, and brought us food constantly.

Another town we spent time in was As Samawa. Again the locals welcomed us in.

WHen we took fire in a small town way to the north called Irbil, this is just north of Kirkuk, locals came out of there houses and fired on the insurgents. You have to realize how extrodinarily dangerous for them this was. THeir danger was two fold. First they ran the risk of being identified as insurgents by the marines I was with, second once we left they could have been tagged and hunted down by the insurgents.

I only spent 3 weeks there and I have a hundred stories of them welcoming us and only two of them not. So don't try to tell me what is happening over there. What the media shows you is only the darkest of what happens. They do not talk about the town that just got it's first school, for the first time ever has clean water and electricity. That their young men are no longer conscripted into the Army or shot if they refuse.

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Dom182

Now you are drinking the media Kool-Aid. Have there been shootings of civilians? Yes and is is heartbreaking that it happens. Does it happen a lot, NO! Don't say many because there haven't been many. over 130k troops there and civilians being killed is vary rare. That is not to say it is not serious anytime that it occurs.

All you see is the crap fed to you by the media. Don't tell me you "know" this is going on because you don't. I just spent 3 weeks in Iraq. The civilians certainly do not hate us.

We were in a town called Ba'qubah, just north of Bagdad and had civilians swamping our vehicles as we drove into town. Children especially love the soilders, granted that's mostly because they all carry candy and hand it out to them. I spent three days in this town and received nothing but cooperation from the locals. They offered their homes for us, we bivuaced while there, and brought us food constantly.

Another town we spent time in was As Samawa. Again the locals welcomed us in.

WHen we took fire in a small town way to the north called Irbil, this is just north of Kirkuk, locals came out of there houses and fired on the insurgents. You have to realize how extrodinarily dangerous for them this was. THeir danger was two fold. First they ran the risk of being identified as insurgents by the marines I was with, second once we left they could have been tagged and hunted down by the insurgents.

I only spent 3 weeks there and I have a hundred stories of them welcoming us and only two of them not. So don't try to tell me what is happening over there. What the media shows you is only the darkest of what happens. They do not talk about the town that just got it's first school, for the first time ever has clean water and electricity. That their young men are no longer conscripted into the Army or shot if they refuse.

Haha, this is as credible as your claim that Hugo Chavez increased the poverty line to 75%. Who's really drinking the kool-aid? Civilians love you? I don't doubt that some do, but then why are there reports of Iraqi civilians trying to kill American soldiers? Perhaps they lost a family member to the hands of American soldiers?

I don't listen to everything that the media says. Do you think the "darkest" hours they present are false? Are there not Iraqi civilians dying in the hands of our soldiers? By the way, what are down there for anyway? Please don't tell me it is to provide peace and stability. Did we not overthrow their government and incite all of the current fighting that is going on? You don't think the fact that Iran is it's neighbor and that they're sitting on top of 25% of the world's oil reserves have anything to do with it? If the U.S. wants to provide peace and stability, why not look to Congo where 5 million people have been recently killed?

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

Haha, this is as credible as your claim that Hugo Chavez increased the poverty line to 75%. Who's really drinking the kool-aid? Civilians love you? I don't doubt that some do, but then why are there reports of Iraqi civilians trying to kill American soldiers? Perhaps they lost a family member to the hands of American soldiers?

I don't listen to everything that the media says. Do you think the "darkest" hours they present are false? Are there not Iraqi civilians dying in the hands of our soldiers? By the way, what are down there for anyway? Please don't tell me it is to provide peace and stability. Did we not overthrow their government and incite all of the current fighting that is going on? You don't think the fact that Iran is it's neighbor and that they're sitting on top of 25% of the world's oil reserves have anything to do with it? If the U.S. wants to provide peace and stability, why not look to Congo where 5 million people have been recently killed?

No they are not false but they only report the darkest of the dark. How many stories do you actually hear in a week, in a month, or a year? The key here is different stories, not the same one over and over. They make the absolute most of the few stories that actually happen. Out of those stories how many good ones do you hear. Do you actually believe with the number of interractions we have over there, there are no good ones? The good stories just don't make the news. Have you heard the story about the little girl with spinal bifida that was given to the marines during a raid on a house? THis is an older story but one that has stuck with me. They were questioning the adults when the little girl was given to them by the grandmother. They arranged for the girl to be sent to the US for surgery. She is now back there and healthy. Yes we did overthrow Saddam, and yes we did cause violence. But to date less have died in the past 5 years than did the previous 5. No one is in jail for being a different religon or sect of a religion, being targeted by death squads, or being tortured in one of Saddam's jails.

I said children love the soldiers and marines, not the civilians. The civilians generally consider us a necessary evil. According to the press they hate us and that is just not true. While there we did not have any civilians attacking us. Granted I was only there 3 weeks, but the same can be said for any of us that have gone, and we do not just squat down in the green zone, we travel a lot,. The ones trying to kill us are less that 1/2% of the population, and a very good percentage of them are not even Iraqi. They are from neighboring nations, such as Iran. Yet that 1/2 percent is portrayed by the press as the general consensus of the nation.

About oil. I am sure oil had a lot to do with it. I am also sure it needed to be done. We disagree on that and neither of us is going to convince the other any differently.

As for the Congo, I don't see anyone else doing anything for them, or in Rwanda, or Somalia. Or why don't we talk about the Sudan and China's diplomatic protection and economic support for the Islamist regime in Khartoum. Though Khartoum's genocidal counterinsurgency campaign against Darfur's African tribes has been authoritatively documented for years by the UN and several other international agencies.

In Iraq, Saddam was commiting Genocide of the Kurds and killing other Iraqi's by the thousands. That wasn't the reason we went but do you think that matters to those who are alive because we are there.

As for what I was doing there. My company works with the Logistical support teams from the AFMC. The team works out some of the logistical and supply problems. With the with the upcoming reduction in forces they are in high gear. We always have one person assigned to them and it was just my turn to go. Worked out well for me though. I combined it with my vacation so got free airfare to Europe.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

For about a year, I had decided that I was going to vote democrat no matter what. But now, after seeing how Hillary has sunk so low and how Obama is nothing but a conformist preacher whom belongs in a church rather than the white house. First Hillary Clinton calls for boycotting the open ceremony of the Olympic games just to appease the people, primarily the retarded liberal hippies, even though she full well knows the history of China and Tibet and the current slandering of China by the Western mass media. And now, Obama decides that he better get on the bandwagon for some political points too! Well, fuck you Obama. Your true colors have shown.

McCain 08. No one else seems to be giving a damn about Iraq and Iran, but are devoting all of their attention to Tibet even though they don't know anything about the situation and history.

Fuck you hippies. I'm going to save more of my own money and pay less taxes. Screw your education and screw your health care.

Are you still on Obama?

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Dom182

As for the Congo, I don't see anyone else doing anything for them, or in Rwanda, or Somalia. Or why don't we talk about the Sudan and China's diplomatic protection and economic support for the Islamist regime in Khartoum. Though Khartoum's genocidal counterinsurgency campaign against Darfur's African tribes has been authoritatively documented for years by the UN and several other international agencies.

Do you know why the U.S. isn't helping Congo? It's because there are no valuable natural resources nor political interests there. Do you know why China deals with the Khartoum? It's because the U.S. monopolizes so much of the oil in the world. China has a non-interference foreign policy and they are starving for oil in order to have economic growth. Sorry, but most people want to have a stove and a washing machine rather than to wash their clothes in the river. As for Darfur, it is somewhat fabricated by Western propaganda. The death tolls are nowhere near 200,000. In fact, there is absolutely no evidence of that. The death counts are officially counted to be around 9000, hardly any genocide.

I'm not a big expert on Darfur, but I do know a lot about Tibet. Judging from how the media, the U.S. government, and the exile government of India (puppet of the U.K.) have totally slandered China on the issue of Tibet, I can't imagine the Darfur propaganda being any better.

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

Do you know why the U.S. isn't helping Congo? It's because there are no valuable natural resources nor political interests there. Do you know why China deals with the Khartoum? It's because the U.S. monopolizes so much of the oil in the world. China has a non-interference foreign policy and they are starving for oil in order to have economic growth. Sorry, but most people want to have a stove and a washing machine rather than to wash their clothes in the river. As for Darfur, it is somewhat fabricated by Western propaganda. The death tolls are nowhere near 200,000. In fact, there is absolutely no evidence of that. The death counts are officially counted to be around 9000, hardly any genocide.

I'm not a big expert on Darfur, but I do know a lot about Tibet. Judging from how the media, the U.S. government, and the exile government of India (puppet of the U.K.) have totally slandered China on the issue of Tibet, I can't imagine the Darfur propaganda being any better.

What a load. China is willing to pay much more for oil than the US and is getting preferrential tratment by most foreign oil companies. I don't even blame the oil companies for that , because if I had something to sell I would definitely sell it to the highest bidder. That is in part what is happening to our oil prices. Also you consistently say the US is in Iraq for the oil and point out how bad that is, yet in the next post you defend China for doing the same if not worse. At least while we are in Iraq we are trying to make it better. China is completely ignoring what is going on in Darfur.

As for western proaganda, China outright said they were selling arms to Sudan. They only backtracked very recently when the backlash hit them and the Olympics were jeopardized.

You keep saying this is why the US is not helping in the Congo. When are you going to tell me why no one else is?