VOTE DEMOCRAT IT IS EASIER THAN THINKING

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Dom182

What a load. China is willing to pay much more for oil than the US and is getting preferrential tratment by most foreign oil companies. I don't even blame the oil companies for that , because if I had something to sell I would definitely sell it to the highest bidder. That is in part what is happening to our oil prices. Also you consistently say the US is in Iraq for the oil and point out how bad that is, yet in the next post you defend China for doing the same if not worse. At least while we are in Iraq we are trying to make it better. China is completely ignoring what is going on in Darfur.

As for western proaganda, China outright said they were selling arms to Sudan. They only backtracked very recently when the backlash hit them and the Olympics were jeopardized.

You keep saying this is why the US is not helping in the Congo. When are you going to tell me why no one else is?

Dom, don't be a hypocrite. What country is the #1 arms dealer in the world? Which country is the #1 proliferator of nuclear weapons? I'm sure I won't have to answer those questions for you.

China never says one thing and then complete does the other. They are hardcore capitalists and have a non-intervention foreign policy. Last time I checked, China was not communist and wants to do business with EVERYONE. China is not attacking Sudan or Venezuela and have the audacity to label it as liberation of the people there. China makes deals through diplomacy, not through terror, occupations, and invasions, unlike the U.S..

I'm not going to totally defend China, but my point is that with China the agenda is obvious. They just want to play by the rules and make money. You know, kind of like what the U.S. did for about over a hundred years.

I'm just tired of right-wing propagandists blabbering about how they're in the Middle East for peace, stability, and the betterment of mankind and how if we don't do this, then the terrorists will kill us all on our soil. I guess in a Democracy, a government often has to make up lies in order to achieve its political motives while appease to the people at the same time. Come on, Darfur? War on Terror? You still buy into all of that?

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

Dom, don't be a hypocrite. What country is the #1 arms dealer in the world? Which country is the #1 proliferator of nuclear weapons? I'm sure I won't have to answer those questions for you.

China never says one thing and then complete does the other. They are hardcore capitalists and have a non-intervention foreign policy. Last time I checked, China was not communist and wants to do business with EVERYONE. China is not attacking Sudan or Venezuela and have the audacity to label it as liberation of the people there. China makes deals through diplomacy, not through terror, occupations, and invasions, unlike the U.S..

I'm not going to totally defend China, but my point is that with China the agenda is obvious. They just want to play by the rules and make money. You know, kind of like what the U.S. did for about over a hundred years.

I'm just tired of right-wing propagandists blabbering about how they're in the Middle East for peace, stability, and the betterment of mankind and how if we don't do this, then the terrorists will kill us all on our soil. I guess in a Democracy, a government often has to make up lies in order to achieve its political motives while appease to the people at the same time. Come on, Darfur? War on Terror? You still buy into all of that?

Fist, I have to say I enjoy our debates, I think you and I would get along well, even if we would tend to argue a bit.

Now that said, Bullshit dude. You can not point a finger at the US then say what China is doing is allright because they have a noninterference policy. I can note a few big interferences if you like. Vietnam, Korea, Tibet, Taiwan. Now I know both Tibet and Taiwan are both technically parts of China. That however can be said for many countries, We were part of England and wanted our independance, Congo was part of Belgium (well maybe that isn't a good example) Most of northern Africa was a colony or protectorate of Either England or France. Singapore used to be a Brittish colony. Get my point. It is time to let go. If these countries want to be part of China let them decide for themselves.

Now all that said, I do not hate Ciina nor do I think it is the Big Baddy that everyone makes them out to be. They make mistakes just like any other country.

As for what I am tired of. I am sick of everyone bashing the US. We are constantly bashed for anything we do and no one recognizes us for the Altruistic things we do. We are the #1 supplier of free med, food, water, and labor to Africa and other disadvantaged countries. The US government gives more money away to undeveloped countries than the entire EU and arab countries combined. Why do we never hear about that. In addition aside from what the gov gives, the private donations from citizens of the US exceeds the total amount of money given by the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Why do we not hear about that?

[32AATopIPEandDub]

Originally Posted by Dom182

Fist, I have to say I enjoy our debates, I think you and I would get along well, even if we would tend to argue a bit.

Now that said, Bullshit dude. You can not point a finger at the US then say what China is doing is allright because they have a noninterference policy. I can note a few big interferences if you like. Vietnam, Korea, Tibet, Taiwan. Now I know both Tibet and Taiwan are both technically parts of China. That however can be said for many countries, We were part of England and wanted our independance, Congo was part of Belgium (well maybe that isn't a good example) Most of northern Africa was a colony or protectorate of Either England or France. Singapore used to be a Brittish colony. Get my point. It is time to let go. If these countries want to be part of China let them decide for themselves.

Now all that said, I do not hate Ciina nor do I think it is the Big Baddy that everyone makes them out to be. They make mistakes just like any other country.

As for what I am tired of. I am sick of everyone bashing the US. We are constantly bashed for anything we do and no one recognizes us for the Altruistic things we do. We are the #1 supplier of free med, food, water, and labor to Africa and other disadvantaged countries. The US government gives more money away to undeveloped countries than the entire EU and arab countries combined. Why do we never hear about that. In addition aside from what the gov gives, the private donations from citizens of the US exceeds the total amount of money given by the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Why do we not hear about that?

Well thanks Dom. I think I would get along with you just as well.

Yes, I absolutely agree that America has done some great things and still is. But the current criticism is fair thanks to what we have been doing post 9/11.

As for China... Tibet and Taiwan? They were never colonialized by China. They have been a part of China for almost a thousand years until the British invaded Tibet and committed actual genocide there. The British tried to force China to sign a treaty that will claim Tibet's independence, but China, The RoC refused. Vietnam? Are you talking about singled out fishing incident where 8 fisherman were killed or injured or are you talking about the Vietnam War? And Korea? Are you talking about the times when Western powers wanted to occupy Vietnam and Korea and use them as military bases against China? Hmm, if Iran attacked Mexico and tried to install military bases there, don't you think the U.S. would intervene?

I'm glad that you don't Cina unlike many other right-wingers. By the way, do you know which country donated to Hurricane Katrina on the amount of 5x higher than any other country? China. China donated 5 million to Hurricane Katrina, a catastrophe that is laughable comparatively to the recent earthquake in China. Do you know how much the U.S. donated to China for that? Half a million. Know how much the UK donated? ZERO.

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

Well thanks Dom. I think I would get along with you just as well.

Yes, I absolutely agree that America has done some great things and still is. But the current criticism is fair thanks to what we have been doing post 9/11.

As for China... Tibet and Taiwan? They were never colonialized by China. They have been a part of China for almost a thousand years until the British invaded Tibet and committed actual genocide there. The British tried to force China to sign a treaty that will claim Tibet's independence, but China, The RoC refused. Vietnam? Are you talking about singled out fishing incident where 8 fisherman were killed or injured or are you talking about the Vietnam War? And Korea? Are you talking about the times when Western powers wanted to occupy Vietnam and Korea and use them as military bases against China? Hmm, if Iran attacked Mexico and tried to install military bases there, don't you think the U.S. would intervene?

I'm glad that you don't Cina unlike many other right-wingers. By the way, do you know which country donated to Hurricane Katrina on the amount of 5x higher than any other country? China. China donated 5 million to Hurricane Katrina, a catastrophe that is laughable comparatively to the recent earthquake in China. Do you know how much the U.S. donated to China for that? Half a million. Know how much the UK donated? ZERO.

Didn't know that the Brittish did that nor did I know about China's donations.

As for Vietnam, remember the French started that, invited us then left, and guess who we found there, yes China. Korea? If I remember right on June 25th 1950 the North spurred on by the soviets invaded the south not Vice versa. We were there as a requirement of the Treaty signed after WWII. We had hardly any troops there and had to go into emergency seccion to get more there. Also the tool the soviets used to push North Korea was again the Chinese, who were in the North in force.

As for Tibet. Depending on who you listen to Tibet was independent until. Per the Chinese it was taken control of by the Yaun Dynasty in 1271, or per the Tibetans, in 1912 when the Chinese asserted control.

As for the claim on Taiwan this is pretty twisted. Taiwan was settled and ruled by many countries until the Dutch were defeated by the Fujian ( a chinese province) navy in 1662. The Fujians created their own Kingdom and actually raided mainland China Finally the Chinese had enough of this in 1683 and crushed them. They then annexed the island as part of the Fujian province. China actually seded Taiwan to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of Shimonoseki after the Sino-Japanese war, and stayed Japanese until they were defeated in WWII. The Chinese reasserted control, rather bloodily, in 1945. The funny part on this is that the Republic of China
government ended up moving to Taiwan to flee from the Koumintang during the civil war, then when the PRC was created the ROC became it's own country.

My point weith all of this? They are not part of China (unless they want to be) and have not been but for a very short period of time.

[32AATopIPEandDub]

[

Originally Posted by Dom182

Didn't know that the Brittish did that nor did I know about China's donations.

As for Vietnam, remember the French started that, invited us then left, and guess who we found there, yes China. Korea? If I remember right on June 25th 1950 the North spurred on by the soviets invaded the south not Vice versa. We were there as a requirement of the Treaty signed after WWII. We had hardly any troops there and had to go into emergency seccion to get more there. Also the tool the soviets used to push North Korea was again the Chinese, who were in the North in force.

As for Tibet. Depending on who you listen to Tibet was independent until. Per the Chinese it was taken control of by the Yaun Dynasty in 1271, or per the Tibetans, in 1912 when the Chinese asserted control.

As for the claim on Taiwan this is pretty twisted. Taiwan was settled and ruled by many countries until the Dutch were defeated by the Fujian ( a chinese province) navy in 1662. The Fujians created their own Kingdom and actually raided mainland China Finally the Chinese had enough of this in 1683 and crushed them. They then annexed the island as part of the Fujian province. China actually seded Taiwan to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of Shimonoseki after the Sino-Japanese war, and stayed Japanese until they were defeated in WWII. The Chinese reasserted control, rather bloodily, in 1945. The funny part on this is that the Republic of China
government ended up moving to Taiwan to flee from the Koumintang during the civil war, then when the PRC was created the ROC became it's own country.

My point weith all of this? They are not part of China (unless they want to be) and have not been but for a very short period of time.

Your point is absolutely biased and wrong, and let me point out why...

[As for Vietnam, remember the French started that, invited us then left, and guess who we found there, yes China.]
-- Ok, so the French with the help of the U.S. wanted to continue to colonialize and occupy Vietnam, a neighboring country of China, when Minh wanted to unify Vietnam and be free from the occupation. Hmm, China's choices... help a neighboring country fight for the cause that they believe in or allow the French to further colonialize and occupy Vietnam to establish military bases that would weaken and threaten China... Hmm............. Yeah...................

[Korea? If I remember right on June 25th 1950 the North spurred on by the soviets invaded the south not Vice versa.]
-- I'm not so familiar with the Korean War, but from my knowledge, I do believe that China did not interfere until America occupied South Korea and threatened to overtake North Korea as well, which the U.S. would definitely have established military bases in North Korea and threaten the stability of China. Dom, you really need to study the history of China to understand why China was defensive after being humiliated and abused for a hundred years.

[As for Tibet. Depending on who you listen to Tibet was independent until. Per the Chinese it was taken control of by the Yaun Dynasty in 1271, or per the Tibetans, in 1912 when the Chinese asserted control.]
-- You mean 1912 when the British invaded Tibet while China was weakened by foreign powers and couldn't do anything to defend itself? You mean when the British tried to force China to sign a treaty to declare Tibet's independence which would have been a puppet nation of the UK similar to India was for several decades? Independence? Really? Is that why NO COUNTRY has ever acknowledge that independence except for the British?

[As for the claim on Taiwan this is pretty twisted. Taiwan was settled and ruled by many countries until the Dutch were defeated by the Fujian ( a chinese province) navy in 1662.]
-- The Dutch had invaded and colonialized Taiwan in the 17th century, which then Zheng Cheng Gong, a Ming Dynasty loyalist gathered enough forces to overthrow and defeat the Dutch. So the Dutch had Taiwan for about 20 years. Prior to that the Spanish colonialized Taiwan for a decade at the most. So are you trying to tell me that a country can claim independence as long as it colonialize it for a brief period of time? So if I take a piss in your yard, does your yard belong to me now? The truth is that Taiwan has been a part of China ever since the 1683. That's a hundred years before America became independent.

[China actually seded Taiwan to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of Shimonoseki after the Sino-Japanese war, and stayed Japanese until they were defeated in WWII.]
-- Oh, with this reasoning, does that mean Hong Kong still belongs to Britain and Shanghai belongs to Japan? China was severely weakened around that time and every foreign country wanted a piece of the pie. The Japanese killed, tortured, and raped millions and million of Chinese people during that time and forced China to accept the occupation of Shanghai and other regions. In 1895, the Emperor had betrayed the country by selling Taiwan out to Japan just so that Japan would leave the Emperor alone. The people of China, in retaliation, overthrew the Emperial rule and established the RoC. If Bush wanted to give California to Mexico, you think we would let him? Again, Japan had Taiwan through military rule for about a few decades at most.

[The funny part on this is that the Republic of China
government ended up moving to Taiwan to flee from the Koumintang during the civil war, then when the PRC was created the ROC became it's own country.]
-- Umm, you mean the RoC, which was the KMT, fled from the PRC, CCP (Communist Party of China). Looks like someone didn't get all of the details from wikipedia =). Yes, it was a revolution because the RoC was corrupt and did not unify all of China. Mao, a tyrant in his latter years, did a great job in his early years by unifying China under one government and fight against the oppression and occupations of foreign powers. KMT wanted to be America's puppet, giving all the money to the rich while the poor suffers. Mao and the CCP said fuck that, we're going to become a great nation on our own.

[My point weith all of this? They are not part of China (unless they want to be) and have not been but for a very short period of time.]
-- Check who was just recently democraticly elected as the president of Taiwan. Yeah, he's Chinese and he pro unification of China and Taiwan. He won by a landslide. As for Tibet, the Tibetans do not want independence. No one is even claiming for independence except for the spoiled stupid liberal hippies in the West. Even the Dalai Lama isn't claiming for independence, he just wants autonomy. And even then, only the exile government of India is voicing that claim. The people of Tibet were rioting for a whole different issue, NOT for the Dalai Lama's autonomy at all. Those Tibetans enjoy their cell phones, karaoke, jean pants, and the economic prosperity going on. They rioted because many issues, primarily because they feel that they don't have good human rights and freedom of speech. This is a problem in ALL OF CHINA, not just Tibet.

China does not tax ethnic Tibetans when it comes to argriculture and many other things. They provide them with health care, free secular education, electricity, running water, welfare, billions of dollars into restoration of their monasteries and nunneries. There are 7 million ethnic Tibetans in the Greater Tibet region. Sadly, we can't say the same for Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals. Prior to the PRC's help, Tibet didn't even have half of that population and 95% of their citizens were SLAVES.

So Dom, I am more than willing to tell you the shortcomings and corruptions of the current government of China, but the reasons you have listed are just not valid.

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

[

Your point is absolutely biased and wrong, and let me point out why...

[As for Vietnam, remember the French started that, invited us then left, and guess who we found there, yes China.]
-- Ok, so the French with the help of the U.S. wanted to continue to colonialize and occupy Vietnam, a neighboring country of China, when Minh wanted to unify Vietnam and be free from the occupation. Hmm, China's choices... help a neighboring country fight for the cause that they believe in or allow the French to further colonialize and occupy Vietnam to establish military bases that would weaken and threaten China... Hmm............. Yeah...................

[Korea? If I remember right on June 25th 1950 the North spurred on by the soviets invaded the south not Vice versa.]
-- I'm not so familiar with the Korean War, but from my knowledge, I do believe that China did not interfere until America occupied South Korea and threatened to overtake North Korea as well, which the U.S. would definitely have established military bases in North Korea and threaten the stability of China. Dom, you really need to study the history of China to understand why China was defensive after being humiliated and abused for a hundred years.

[As for Tibet. Depending on who you listen to Tibet was independent until. Per the Chinese it was taken control of by the Yaun Dynasty in 1271, or per the Tibetans, in 1912 when the Chinese asserted control.]
-- You mean 1912 when the British invaded Tibet while China was weakened by foreign powers and couldn't do anything to defend itself? You mean when the British tried to force China to sign a treaty to declare Tibet's independence which would have been a puppet nation of the UK similar to India was for several decades? Independence? Really? Is that why NO COUNTRY has ever acknowledge that independence except for the British?

[As for the claim on Taiwan this is pretty twisted. Taiwan was settled and ruled by many countries until the Dutch were defeated by the Fujian ( a chinese province) navy in 1662.]
-- The Dutch had invaded and colonialized Taiwan in the 17th century, which then Zheng Cheng Gong, a Ming Dynasty loyalist gathered enough forces to overthrow and defeat the Dutch. So the Dutch had Taiwan for about 20 years. Prior to that the Spanish colonialized Taiwan for a decade at the most. So are you trying to tell me that a country can claim independence as long as it colonialize it for a brief period of time? So if I take a piss in your yard, does your yard belong to me now? The truth is that Taiwan has been a part of China ever since the 1683. That's a hundred years before America became independent.

[China actually seded Taiwan to the Japanese in 1895 with the Treaty of Shimonoseki after the Sino-Japanese war, and stayed Japanese until they were defeated in WWII.]
-- Oh, with this reasoning, does that mean Hong Kong still belongs to Britain and Shanghai belongs to Japan? China was severely weakened around that time and every foreign country wanted a piece of the pie. The Japanese killed, tortured, and raped millions and million of Chinese people during that time and forced China to accept the occupation of Shanghai and other regions. In 1895, the Emperor had betrayed the country by selling Taiwan out to Japan just so that Japan would leave the Emperor alone. The people of China, in retaliation, overthrew the Emperial rule and established the RoC. If Bush wanted to give California to Mexico, you think we would let him? Again, Japan had Taiwan through military rule for about a few decades at most.

[The funny part on this is that the Republic of China
government ended up moving to Taiwan to flee from the Koumintang during the civil war, then when the PRC was created the ROC became it's own country.]
-- Umm, you mean the RoC, which was the KMT, fled from the PRC, CCP (Communist Party of China). Looks like someone didn't get all of the details from wikipedia =). Yes, it was a revolution because the RoC was corrupt and did not unify all of China. Mao, a tyrant in his latter years, did a great job in his early years by unifying China under one government and fight against the oppression and occupations of foreign powers. KMT wanted to be America's puppet, giving all the money to the rich while the poor suffers. Mao and the CCP said fuck that, we're going to become a great nation on our own.

[My point weith all of this? They are not part of China (unless they want to be) and have not been but for a very short period of time.]
-- Check who was just recently democraticly elected as the president of Taiwan. Yeah, he's Chinese and he pro unification of China and Taiwan. He won by a landslide. As for Tibet, the Tibetans do not want independence. No one is even claiming for independence except for the spoiled stupid liberal hippies in the West. Even the Dalai Lama isn't claiming for independence, he just wants autonomy. And even then, only the exile government of India is voicing that claim. The people of Tibet were rioting for a whole different issue, NOT for the Dalai Lama's autonomy at all. Those Tibetans enjoy their cell phones, karaoke, jean pants, and the economic prosperity going on. They rioted because many issues, primarily because they feel that they don't have good human rights and freedom of speech. This is a problem in ALL OF CHINA, not just Tibet.

China does not tax ethnic Tibetans when it comes to argriculture and many other things. They provide them with health care, free secular education, electricity, running water, welfare, billions of dollars into restoration of their monasteries and nunneries. There are 7 million ethnic Tibetans in the Greater Tibet region. Sadly, we can't say the same for Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals. Prior to the PRC's help, Tibet didn't even have half of that population and 95% of their citizens were SLAVES.

So Dom, I am more than willing to tell you the shortcomings and corruptions of the current government of China, but the reasons you have listed are just not valid.

First, I am primarily being the Devil's advocate. I again reitterate that I don't have a problem with most of China's policies. I am using them to contrast what the US does, and to show it is not just us. Also I find most of what you said as accurate.

Next, to many initials, ROC, PRC, CCP, KMT, PLBDKLSJFLKJHFKJFHA blah blah blah, I got a bit confused. And no I was not quoting from Wikipedia, were you? I was reading a book on the History of Asia. I tend not to trust Wiki, although I have found many of the things in there are directly from this book or that. I still do not trust it without verifying.

We will start with Taiwan. That is why I put in there unless they want to be.
The Dutch came after the Potuguese, and the place was prior to the 1600's, a litteral hellhole until they came there. Now if the Chinese had actually run it prior to that, I do not believe it would have been so unruly. Say what you want about the Chinese, they new what civlization was, even back then.
Next the Fujians were not from Taiwan they were from another island.


Tibet? Was taken over by China in the 13th Century. In other words it was not always China, at least not for thousands of years. As for the elections that is why I said depending on who is saying it. They absolutely have the right to become part of China. Also it does not matter what China gives them. The Brittish gave us many things then we seceded, bit of a fight that. Now Tibet wants to be autonomous of of Chinese rule, why not let them. If it goes to shit it is their own fault. That is what everyone is saying about Iraq isn't it.

As for Native Americans. The only ancestors I have that lived in the US before 1938 were Lokota Souix, so I don't think I nor many other people who's recent ancestors were late immigrants are to blame, and in that turn I am certainly not going to apologize.

[32AATopIPEandDub]

[Now Tibet wants to be autonomous of of Chinese rule, why not let them.]

-- They don't. I already said this is propaganda spread by the exile government of India and the exile Tibetans in the West whose ancestors were former aristocrats and high official slave owning monks. No one seems to be caring what the Tibetans in Tibet want. They just have the Dalai Lama trolling around speaking for everyone in Tibet even though he hasn't been there for over 50 years.

-- And even if Tibet wanted Autonomous rule. So what? The answer is: HELL NO. If Utah wanted Autonomous rule for the church of Mormon, would we let that happen? It's quite funny to hear the tree hugging liberals advocate separation of church and state, yet support a slave theocracy in Tibet. Quite ironic isn't it? I'm sure you're just playing devil's advocate here aren't you?

-- As for the Tibet in the 13th century... That was almost 800 years ago. This is why we have international law today. And under these international laws, Tibet and Taiwan are a part of China. End of discussion. If they want to succeed, they can fight a revolution for it, just like what America did. The funny part is that almost all of them do not. China has been mostly really good to them.

-- Debating with you has only renewed my hatred for ignorant tree-hugging leftist liberals. Those are the same ignorant people that blame industrialization for the recent earthquake in China. But I also realize that not all liberals are ignorant tree-huggers. Not all leftists are crazy like that. If it were up to them, the South would have succeeded and become a nation of slave states.

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

[Now Tibet wants to be autonomous of of Chinese rule, why not let them.]

-- They don't. I already said this is propaganda spread by the exile government of India and the exile Tibetans in the West whose ancestors were former aristocrats and high official slave owning monks. No one seems to be caring what the Tibetans in Tibet want. They just have the Dalai Lama trolling around speaking for everyone in Tibet even though he hasn't been there for over 50 years.

-- And even if Tibet wanted Autonomous rule. So what? The answer is: HELL NO. If Utah wanted Autonomous rule for the church of Mormon, would we let that happen? It's quite funny to hear the tree hugging liberals advocate separation of church and state, yet support a slave theocracy in Tibet. Quite ironic isn't it? I'm sure you're just playing devil's advocate here aren't you?

-- As for the Tibet in the 13th century... That was almost 800 years ago. This is why we have international law today. And under these international laws, Tibet and Taiwan are a part of China. End of discussion. If they want to succeed, they can fight a revolution for it, just like what America did. The funny part is that almost all of them do not. China has been mostly really good to them.

-- Debating with you has only renewed my hatred for ignorant tree-hugging leftist liberals. Those are the same ignorant people that blame industrialization for the recent earthquake in China. But I also realize that not all liberals are ignorant tree-huggers. Not all leftists are crazy like that. If it were up to them, the South would have succeeded and become a nation of slave states.

I can not believe you didn't notice that I lost my train of thought twice while I was talking about Tibet. I started talking about the Taiwan elections about a sentence in and it becomes all garbled switching from one to the other.

Anyway. I am going to China the late July and into August just before the Olympics, I will see what I think at that point. Of course I won't be able to log on while I am there since the internet is controlled by the government not private industry. HA HA I had to get that in there.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

For about a year, I had decided that I was going to vote democrat no matter what. But now, after seeing how Hillary has sunk so low and how Obama is nothing but a conformist preacher whom belongs in a church rather than the white house. First Hillary Clinton calls for boycotting the open ceremony of the Olympic games just to appease the people, primarily the retarded liberal hippies, even though she full well knows the history of China and Tibet and the current slandering of China by the Western mass media. And now, Obama decides that he better get on the bandwagon for some political points too! Well, fuck you Obama. Your true colors have shown.

McCain 08. No one else seems to be giving a damn about Iraq and Iran, but are devoting all of their attention to Tibet even though they don't know anything about the situation and history.

Fuck you hippies. I'm going to save more of my own money and pay less taxes. Screw your education and screw your health care.

But you opinion is biased because you hate America. You are sounding more and more like a jilted lover. You want Saddam Hussein in power, the death of Israel, you blame Amerca for 9-11, and you try to revise history. I'll say it one more time, please vote for Obama. Please. We need to get the people who hate the country like yourself to get behind Obama.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by 32AATopIPEandDub

For about a year, I had decided that I was going to vote democrat no matter what. But now, after seeing how Hillary has sunk so low and how Obama is nothing but a conformist preacher whom belongs in a church rather than the white house. First Hillary Clinton calls for boycotting the open ceremony of the Olympic games just to appease the people, primarily the retarded liberal hippies, even though she full well knows the history of China and Tibet and the current slandering of China by the Western mass media. And now, Obama decides that he better get on the bandwagon for some political points too! Well, fuck you Obama. Your true colors have shown.

McCain 08. No one else seems to be giving a damn about Iraq and Iran, but are devoting all of their attention to Tibet even though they don't know anything about the situation and history.

Fuck you hippies. I'm going to save more of my own money and pay less taxes. Screw your education and screw your health care.

YouTube - Gore criticizes Bush for ignoring Iraq's ties to terrorism