All Muslims Are Not Terrorists, But All Terrorists Are Muslims

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Captain Poop's #1Fan

You really don't know what you're talking about, you're merely parroting the same old talking points you hear from o'reilly and hannity.

I'm jewish and I don't think Hezbollah is solely to blame in this. Israel is just as guilty in perpetuating the violence against Lebanon. It is quite evident to anyone with half a brain that the plan to attack Lebanon had been formulated long before the two soldiers were kidnapped, that was merely a pretext to do what the Israeli government had been planning for years.

Hezbollah is responsible, but so is Israel, they each hate the other and will not be satisfied until one of them is totally destroyed.
Meanwhile, Israel is destroying roads, fuel, homes and farms, and lebanese civilians are now trapped with no way to transport themselves out of the country or to transport food or water in. Over 600 civilians have been killed, and for what? For two soldiers?

These days anyone you don't like is a terrorist, its just another name for anyone who is your enemy.

"Hezbollah" means "freedom fighter" not suicide bomber or terrorist, and since the lebanese army is a joke, there is really nobody left to defend Lebanon other than Hezbollah. They are also bringing food, water and supplies to civilians because Israel won't let humanitarian agencies in. Yeah, real civilized.

Check out this link, maybe you'll learn something.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20060801/...chanan20060801

How long have you had this hatred for the Israeli people?

[Dom182]

Originally Posted by Captain Poop's #1Fan

You really don't know what you're talking about, you're merely parroting the same old talking points you hear from o'reilly and hannity.

I'm jewish and I don't think Hezbollah is solely to blame in this. Israel is just as guilty in perpetuating the violence against Lebanon. It is quite evident to anyone with half a brain that the plan to attack Lebanon had been formulated long before the two soldiers were kidnapped, that was merely a pretext to do what the Israeli government had been planning for years.

Hezbollah is responsible, but so is Israel, they each hate the other and will not be satisfied until one of them is totally destroyed.
Meanwhile, Israel is destroying roads, fuel, homes and farms, and lebanese civilians are now trapped with no way to transport themselves out of the country or to transport food or water in. Over 600 civilians have been killed, and for what? For two soldiers?

These days anyone you don't like is a terrorist, its just another name for anyone who is your enemy.

"Hezbollah" means "freedom fighter" not suicide bomber or terrorist, and since the lebanese army is a joke, there is really nobody left to defend Lebanon other than Hezbollah. They are also bringing food, water and supplies to civilians because Israel won't let humanitarian agencies in. Yeah, real civilized.

Check out this link, maybe you'll learn something.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20060801/...chanan20060801

I would like to start by saying I am exmil. I have been on the sharp end, more than once. So trust me when I comment on a military matter.

Israel sits between countries that hate them, In a region populated by people who hate them. Of course they had a plan to attack Lebanon. I guarantee they also have an attck plan for Egypt, Syria, and every other mideast country or combination of countries. Everybody fucks with them and guess what they finally had enough and struck back. If you believe they wanted to go to war you're deluding yourself. Not only are they pissing off all of their neighbors they are losing their sons. No military man wants war.

Yes they destroyed roads, fuel and farms. Disrupting the enemies supply lines is a basic tenant of war. Of course Hezbolla is bringing in food and water, their soilders are hungry.

I get so tired of hearing the word "civilized" You know what, WAR IS NOT civilized. It is about making the other side as uncomfortable as you can. Depriving them of the means and the will to fight, crushing their spirit and their desire to continue to persue their ideals. There are rules of war. The geneva conventions govern warfighting and most "civilized" countries adhere to them. Hezbolla on the other hand does not. The next paragraph is just one violation.

As for hiting homes, it is sad that civilians have died, but when you have a room built onto your house for the express purpose of launching a rocket, well I have a hard time feeling all that bad for the homeowner. Israel is hitting buildings, that have been classified as military targets, with precision strikes. Hezbolla is launching hundreds of rockets with the same targeting accuracy of you throwing a rock blindfolded. It will go the direction you aim it but where it hits is anyones guess, and you can bet they cheer everytime one kills a civilian

For the other civilian casualties, this war started 32 days ago, that is plenty of time for innocent civilians to get the hell out. Those that are left are pretty much being classified as combatants.

Yes Hezbolla means freedom fighter. Freedom from what, They weren't bombed or rocketed nearly every damn day. Oh yeah thats right they started this. Also what does it matter what a word means any more. The definition of Jihad is "to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle". That's a long step from "Holy war" or an obligation to kill infidels. So words are just that, made up sounds that we have assigned whatever meaning fit our purposes at the time.

[Flava Flav]

Originally Posted by Robert

How long have you had this hatred for the Israeli people?

Do you know how to read?

Instead of presenting relevant answers to the points I've made, you spew out this ridiculous comment... I'm jewish, why would I hate my own people?

Just because I think the Israeli government is just as much to blame for the violence as Hezbollah, you immediately conclude that I'm some kind of self-loathing jew... please.

You just can't get it in to your head that Muslims are not the only ones responsible for the violence in the middle east... do you think the Israeli government is made up of a bunch of choir boys? Get a clue. You need to get over your hatred of muslims, its blinding you. I love my people, but I'm not going to sit here and cheer them on when I know they're wrong. They have no right to be on Lebanese soil or attack civilian muslim and christian targets, which they have been doing since the beginning.

If you have any intelligent, relevant comments, make them. If not, shut the fuck up.

[Flava Flav]

Originally Posted by Dom182

I would like to start by saying I am exmil. I have been on the sharp end, more than once. So trust me when I comment on a military matter.

Did you serve in Israel? Lebanon?

If not, and I mean no disrespect, you have no clue as to what is actually happening there.

Israel sits between countries that hate them, In a region populated by people who hate them. Of course they had a plan to attack Lebanon. I guarantee they also have an attck plan for Egypt, Syria, and every other mideast country or combination of countries. Everybody fucks with them and guess what they finally had enough and struck back.

Everybody fucks with them? Who's "everybody"? The palestinians? Don't even go there, you know Israel would like nothing better than to push them into the sea if they could. who else "fucks" with them? Give me concrete examples.

If you believe they wanted to go to war you're deluding yourself. Not only are they pissing off all of their neighbors they are losing their sons. No military man wants war.

You're right, military men don't want war, but politicians do.
All politicians are scumbags regardless of political party or ideology, the sooner you realize this, the clearer world events will become.

Yes they destroyed roads, fuel and farms. Disrupting the enemies supply lines is a basic tenant of war. Of course Hezbolla is bringing in food and water, their soilders are hungry.

No, i meant they're bringing food to civilians, not to soldiers. A reporter from msnbc witnessed this first hand and spoke with Hezbollah (who btw treated the american with total respect).

I get so tired of hearing the word "civilized" You know what, WAR IS NOT civilized. It is about making the other side as uncomfortable as you can. Depriving them of the means and the will to fight, crushing their spirit and their desire to continue to persue their ideals. There are rules of war. The geneva conventions govern warfighting and most "civilized" countries adhere to them.

Yes you're right, war is not civilized. However, if we think of ourselves as morally superior to our enemies, we must conduct ourselves accordingly, and leaving people to starve to death because their roads have been destroyed and they can't transport food in, is savage.

As for hiting homes, it is sad that civilians have died, but when you have a room built onto your house for the express purpose of launching a rocket, well I have a hard time feeling all that bad for the homeowner.

Sure... all those targets MUST have had rocket launching pads on them. Just like Qana and the UN post... yeah loads of rockets. Israel's actions are comparable to a cop getting killed by a gang member, then having the entire police department destroy a black neighborhood just because there may be gang members there. Its just disproportionate violence.

Israel is hitting buildings, that have been classified as military targets, with precision strikes. Hezbolla is launching hundreds of rockets with the same targeting accuracy of you throwing a rock blindfolded. It will go the direction you aim it but where it hits is anyones guess, and you can bet they cheer everytime one kills a civilian.

If the Israelis know they're in a war, then they shouldn't be surprised if Hezbollah tries to fight back, correct?

For the other civilian casualties, this war started 32 days ago, that is plenty of time for innocent civilians to get the hell out. Those that are left are pretty much being classified as combatants.

Look at what you're saying: by your account the lebanese people should have already left the area, even the poor who couldn't afford to leave or had no place to go, they are now considered "combatants", and deserve to be killed. What about the Israelis in Haifa? shouldn't they also evacuate? Or should they be considered enemy combatants too because they refuse to leave? at least be consistent.

Yes Hezbolla means freedom fighter. Freedom from what, They weren't bombed or rocketed nearly every damn day. Oh yeah thats right they started this.

You think the kidnapping of the two israeli soldiers was a sufficient provocation? FYI, israel has many Hezbollah fighters in custody, Hezbollah didn't want a war, they wanted a TRADE. These prisoner exchanges between Israel and Hezbollah have worked in the past, which kinda blows the whole "we don't negotiate with terrorists" argument out of the water.

Also what does it matter what a word means any more. The definition of Jihad is "to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle". That's a long step from "Holy war" or an obligation to kill infidels. So words are just that, made up sounds that we have assigned whatever meaning fit our purposes at the time.

I'm not going to argue with you over names and their meanings. Its irrelevant to the discussion.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Captain Poop's #1Fan

Do you know how to read?

Instead of presenting relevant answers to the points I've made, you spew out this ridiculous comment... I'm jewish, why would I hate my own people?

Just because I think the Israeli government is just as much to blame for the violence as Hezbollah, you immediately conclude that I'm some kind of self-loathing jew... please.

You just can't get it in to your head that Muslims are not the only ones responsible for the violence in the middle east... do you think the Israeli government is made up of a bunch of choir boys? Get a clue. You need to get over your hatred of muslims, its blinding you. I love my people, but I'm not going to sit here and cheer them on when I know they're wrong. They have no right to be on Lebanese soil or attack civilian muslim and christian targets, which they have been doing since the beginning.

If you have any intelligent, relevant comments, make them. If not, shut the fuck up.

I am sorry that your mommy and daddy have homosexualized and feminized you. If you love Islam so much you should convert. The Jewish people have the right to defend themselves, of course since you have been homosexualized anyone who makes an aggressive move on amother country you blame the people being attacked, not the attackers. You probably think Bush caused 9-11 as well. Spew your hatred for America and Israel somewhere else. I think Al-"Jizz"era has a fan page somewhere.

Originally Posted by Robert

I am sorry that your mommy and daddy have homosexualized and feminized you. If you love Islam so much you should convert. The Jewish people have the right to defend themselves, of course since you have been homosexualized anyone who makes an aggressive move on amother country you blame the people being attacked, not the attackers. You probably think Bush caused 9-11 as well. Spew your hatred for America and Israel somewhere else. I think Al-"Jizz"era has a fan page somewhere.

See? You once again failed to answer my points in a rational manner, because you're simply not smart enough. All you can do is scream "gay! gay!", I'll take that as an admission of defeat. Victory is mine.

I addressed your point. You hate America and Israel, you have no hope. Perhaps Daddy put his hand down your pants when you were little or maybe it was your uncle?

[Dom182]

I on the other hand am smart enough.

I have been to Israel. 3 Times with the military. Twice while I was there there were terrorist attacks. One of these times I was ordered to assist in aid. I saw two dead kids, another with his arm torn off. Hezbolla claimed responsibility.

I also served in Iraq for the first Gulf war. Not quite the same thing but you do get a feel for the mentality. One of the men on our crew was Jewish. I saw him spit on for his religion.

Your question about who fuck's with Israel leaves your proclamation that you are jewish in very serious doubt. Lets see

1956 Suez war - Egypt sends guerrillas into Israel culminating in the taking of the Suez canal. Israel took it back in 57 with the help of French and British forces

1967 The six day war. Under the united arab command Egypt, Syria and Jordan ammass forces on the Israel border promting a strike by Israel that destroys the air forces of all three. Then continues to defeat the forces of each.

1973 The Yom Kippur war. Syria and Egypt simultaneously attack Israel.

1978 PLO strikes from Lebanon instigating several military engagements

1981 PLO again strikes from within the Lebanese borders. A note to this they also struck at Leabanese Christian forces. This strike spurs Israel to occupy the southern portion of Lebanon beginging in 1982.

1987 to 1991 the "first infatada" a PLO uprising

1990 Gulf war. Even though Israel did not have even one soilder in the war Iraq launched a total of 39 scuds into Israel

2000-2005 The second infatada

Now I know this and I am not even Jewish

As for your views on polititians. Couldn't agree with you more

As for them bringing in food. If you believe they give it all to civilians you are naive. However, I do believe Hezbolla does care for it's own people and has been a pretty effective government for them that is not in dispute. What is in dispute is allowing a self proclaimed terrorist organization to get a pass just because they brought food to their own people. I do not for a minute believe, nor should you that they would make the same provisions for infidels. If you do not believe Hezbolla is a terrorist organization just keep in mind that they recently raised the payout for a suicide attack from 20,000 to 100,000 dollars.

The civilized part and morally superior? In some ways I agree with you others I don't. I believe in humane treatment of civilians and prisioners. However, militarily you cannot leave roads open that enable supplies or reinforcements to reach your enemy. It's not as if this road is designated civilian and that military. The bitch about that is that civilians suffer. It sucks but that has been a part of war since the begining of time.

I never said that Israel did not hit a non military target. I concede that what I said was not concise. Israel has used precision strikes to try to avoid civilian casualties. However even with the best intelligence civilian casualties are inevitable, again it sucks but until there is an end to all war it is going to happen. On the other side of the coin Hezbolla packs their rockets with ball bearings and various other pieces of metal to increase the carnage. They then launch these puposefully into civilian areas.

You made the camparison about gang members. Well this would apply if this was the first strike by Hezbolla. Above I outlined the major military actions, they don't include the 200 terror attacks made by Hezbolla in Israel over the past 26 years. These attacks killed mostly civilians and were very rarely directed at military targets.

As for the poor leaving. An average person can walk 35 miles in a day. So lets bring this down to just 10. That would still get them out of the combat area. Before you say it there are enough able bodied people to help those that aren't. I don't know about you but I don't care how poor I am I hear bombs and I am a civilian I start walking, actually running in the other direction. Israel even drops leaflets warning civilians to leave an area becuase it is about to get hit. So yes after you read one of these leaflets if you are still there you are a combatant.

Again with the thought that this was just about the two soilders. See above. The soilders were just the straw that broke the camels back.

[Dom182]

Here are some other things Hezbolla is responsible for

a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;

the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;

the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;

two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).

Originally Posted by Dom182

I on the other hand am smart enough.

I have been to Israel. 3 Times with the military. Twice while I was there there were terrorist attacks. One of these times I was ordered to assist in aid. I saw two dead kids, another with his arm torn off. Hezbolla claimed responsibility.

I also served in Iraq for the first Gulf war. Not quite the same thing but you do get a feel for the mentality. One of the men on our crew was Jewish. I saw him spit on for his religion.

Your question about who fuck's with Israel leaves your proclamation that you are jewish in very serious doubt. Lets see.

Why would i lie about being jewish? I'm not Israeli nor am i an expert on Israeli history, I was referring to who "fucks" with Israel now, in the present.

1956 Suez war - Egypt sends guerrillas into Israel culminating in the taking of the Suez canal. Israel took it back in 57 with the help of French and British forces

1967 The six day war. Under the united arab command Egypt, Syria and Jordan ammass forces on the Israel border promting a strike by Israel that destroys the air forces of all three. Then continues to defeat the forces of each.

1973 The Yom Kippur war. Syria and Egypt simultaneously attack Israel.

1978 PLO strikes from Lebanon instigating several military engagements

1981 PLO again strikes from within the Lebanese borders. A note to this they also struck at Leabanese Christian forces. This strike spurs Israel to occupy the southern portion of Lebanon beginging in 1982.

1987 to 1991 the "first infatada" a PLO uprising

1990 Gulf war. Even though Israel did not have even one soilder in the war Iraq launched a total of 39 scuds into Israel

2000-2005 The second infatada

Now I know this and I am not even Jewish

As for your views on polititians. Couldn't agree with you more

As for them bringing in food. If you believe they give it all to civilians you are naive. However, I do believe Hezbolla does care for it's own people and has been a pretty effective government for them that is not in dispute. What is in dispute is allowing a self proclaimed terrorist organization to get a pass just because they brought food to their own people. I do not for a minute believe, nor should you that they would make the same provisions for infidels. If you do not believe Hezbolla is a terrorist organization just keep in mind that they recently raised the payout for a suicide attack from 20,000 to 100,000 dollars.

The civilized part and morally superior? In some ways I agree with you others I don't. I believe in humane treatment of civilians and prisioners. However, militarily you cannot leave roads open that enable supplies or reinforcements to reach your enemy. It's not as if this road is designated civilian and that military. The bitch about that is that civilians suffer. It sucks but that has been a part of war since the begining of time.

I never said that Israel did not hit a non military target. I concede that what I said was not concise. Israel has used precision strikes to try to avoid civilian casualties. However even with the best intelligence civilian casualties are inevitable, again it sucks but until there is an end to all war it is going to happen. On the other side of the coin Hezbolla packs their rockets with ball bearings and various other pieces of metal to increase the carnage. They then launch these puposefully into civilian areas.

You made the camparison about gang members. Well this would apply if this was the first strike by Hezbolla. Above I outlined the major military actions, they don't include the 200 terror attacks made by Hezbolla in Israel over the past 26 years. These attacks killed mostly civilians and were very rarely directed at military targets.

As for the poor leaving. An average person can walk 35 miles in a day. So lets bring this down to just 10. That would still get them out of the combat area. Before you say it there are enough able bodied people to help those that aren't. I don't know about you but I don't care how poor I am I hear bombs and I am a civilian I start walking, actually running in the other direction. Israel even drops leaflets warning civilians to leave an area becuase it is about to get hit. So yes after you read one of these leaflets if you are still there you are a combatant.

Again with the thought that this was just about the two soilders. See above. The soilders were just the straw that broke the camels back.

While I'll admit that everything you say is true, I think our perceptions differ slightly. I refuse to blame Hezbollah exclusively, Hezbollah is of course to blame, but I believe Israel could've avoided this current war, if they had so desired. There are many jews like me, who hate what is going on in Lebanon, my being jewish does not necessarily imply that I must agree with every course of action taken by the Israeli government.