Sexual harrasment

[gp65:(]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

Okay I guess I just have an extremely thick skin. I got these sorts of comments all of the time as well. The first month, I let it slide. When the writers picked up on the fact that I was just going to let them say shit to me and I sensed they were getting a rise out of it, I started turning it back on them. They were never stupid enough to say things in front of a customer or their boss.

I didn't kiss ass. I walked up to one service writer, grabbed his wedding ring and finger, looked him in the eye and asked if his wife knew he talked to me like that, maybe we could give her a call and find out... stared him straight in the eye until I was sure he knew I was serious then flashed an evil grin, laughed and left.

He was a kinder, gentler soul after that. I guess that was my boundary setting. I won't take shit if it's directed at me. If I overhear something offensive about another woman, I usually blow it off though. You just can't take those comments too seriously. Men that make these sorts of comments directly to you and about you are doing it for the rise. They're doing it because it makes them feel like they have power over you. Don't let them keep it for long. you can turn it around on them directly without ever getting their boss or yours involved.

What was he going to do? tell my boss what I said... then I'd have to tell his boss what he said. wasn't going to happen.

Okay. I don't want you guys to think I'm the victim type, becuase I am NOT. Yeah, I have thick skin. Most guys I work with think of me as "one of the guys".

I'm just pointing out a situation that occurs over and over at ERAC with the female employees. What about the fresh out of college girl that has never been put in a situation like this?

We all know "making waves" at ERAC is a career killer. I would suspect that this "boys club" attitude that ERAC has going after dealership business is one of the many reasons ERAC has very few women in upper management. Women get tired of being devalued and having their "sales calls" turn into uncomfortable situations where they are thwarting the advances of their accounts.

Originally Posted by FailingEnterpriseAdmin

But isn't it true that if you sue, you're suing your own employer, because he's the one responsible for providing you with a safe workplace?

If you complain to your manager about it...yes, if they don't act on it they're in trouble. H/r complaints are not to be taken lightly. But you can't hold a manager accountable for service writers at another company, that's not fair. If you make a stink and your manager does nothing, then you have a case.

You will also have a scarlet letter and you will be feared/avoided by management because they will feel you are too sensitive. If the harassment is horrid and you want to cry every night over it, then absolutely... I'd confront it myself first then ask for back up if it didn't stop. My take on it is, if you're working in a male-dominated profession, you're going to encounter some sexual harassment...just a fact (not agreeing with it). How you handle it determines whether or not you are promotable. They're not going to promote you then have to deal with overhauling 17 dealerships because one manager doesn't like they way the average service writer/estimator acts. That's just common sense, I'm a woman and I would think that way. So I know the men in moves meetings would think that way too but wouldn't ever talk about it or they could get fired.

Originally Posted by gp65:(

I'm just pointing out a situation that occurs over and over at ERAC with the female employees. What about the fresh out of college girl that has never been put in a situation like this?

We all know "making waves" at ERAC is a career killer. I would suspect that this "boys club" attitude that ERAC has going after dealership business is one of the many reasons ERAC has very few women in upper management. Women get tired of being devalued and having their "sales calls" turn into uncomfortable situations where they are thwarting the advances of their accounts.

Fresh out of college is every woman at ERAC (virtually). If they haven't ever had a job before, I suppose it would be an eye-opener. It wasn't a surprise for me given my experience pre-ERAC.

My take is there aren't many women in upper management due to burnout. Working 65-hour weeks and trying to have a family is draining. Many women aren't the primary income earners in their household and sacrifice their careers in favor of more manageable hours before they're on track for upper management. I truly think ERAC could do more to represent women in upper management. It is sad.

[slave no more]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

Fresh out of college is every woman at ERAC (virtually). If they haven't ever had a job before, I suppose it would be an eye-opener. It wasn't a surprise for me given my experience pre-ERAC.

My take is there aren't many women in upper management due to burnout. Working 65-hour weeks and trying to have a family is draining. Many women aren't the primary income earners in their household and sacrifice their careers in favor of more manageable hours before they're on track for upper management. I truly think ERAC could do more to represent women in upper management. It is sad.

If we are going to take the "fresh out of college" route (and I am not defending sexual harassment by any stretch of the imagination") then why not argue that the males who are fresh out of college are used to a college routine and are not as up to speed on sexual harassment and how to behave in the workplace. Its not different except they are on the giving not receiving end. Don't make excuses for harassment. It is or it isn't, that is it. If a woman chooses to let it slide or chooses to react it is her decision but I feel the decision to let it slide is wrong because it can lead to other issues. If someone comes out of college and actually believes that they should not report harassment or should let it slide cannot be a graduate of a "real" school. Most schools have (if you are any type of business major) a business law class and it talks about this. Also, if you were to walk into a store and heard a rep talking about "anus" or pusy or whatever you would be offended so you should know that it is not right (unless you work at PopCopy) That's a Chapelle Show reference.

Originally Posted by slave no more

If we are going to take the "fresh out of college" route (and I am not defending sexual harassment by any stretch of the imagination") then why not argue that the males who are fresh out of college are used to a college routine and are not as up to speed on sexual harassment and how to behave in the workplace. Its not different except they are on the giving not receiving end. Don't make excuses for harassment. It is or it isn't, that is it. If a woman chooses to let it slide or chooses to react it is her decision but I feel the decision to let it slide is wrong because it can lead to other issues. If someone comes out of college and actually believes that they should not report harassment or should let it slide cannot be a graduate of a "real" school. Most schools have (if you are any type of business major) a business law class and it talks about this. Also, if you were to walk into a store and heard a rep talking about "anus" or pusy or whatever you would be offended so you should know that it is not right (unless you work at PopCopy) That's a Chapelle Show reference.

I didn't make excuses for harassment. I just don't get offended as easily as other people do. That doesn't make me a proponent. I also realize that reporting it before you've confronted the guy that's doling it out isn't wise either. That is my perspective. Men don't have to have the scarlet letter of "complainer" or "victim" regarding sexual harassment and women do. If you don't tolerate anything, good for you. It won't get you anywhere in the long run.

[Core767]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

you know what else is sad? the number of hyper-sensitive women that can't handle ANY sort of remark. I'm not advocating harassment by any means, but it's sad that people have to be so guarded around each other. I don't want to be grabbed or degraded, but if someone is talking about a hot chick and it's not me, why in the hell should I care? I hate working in a culture that makes men feel like they have to take an aside just to say someone's hot because that new MT might get offended. I needed to vent. the level of political correctness corporate America aspires to is ridiculous.

Bleedgreen, for once I agree with you. I totally agree with you on this issue. I don't even have to go any further in my explanation, because you've already said it.

[slave no more]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

I didn't make excuses for harassment. I just don't get offended as easily as other people do. That doesn't make me a proponent. I also realize that reporting it before you've confronted the guy that's doling it out isn't wise either. That is my perspective. Men don't have to have the scarlet letter of "complainer" or "victim" regarding sexual harassment and women do. If you don't tolerate anything, good for you. It won't get you anywhere in the long run.

I have a very high level of tolerance my thing though is for me to run an office, having those types of distractions and problems only adds to the issues that customers already have. At my old branch we were a very close group and could practically say whatever we wanted, BUT we kept it professional because the last thing you need in an environment were people need to lean on other people from time to time is that type of Matzo ball hanging out there (Sienfeld reference). Its hard to lean on someone's shoulder if there is a chip on it.

[slave no more]

Originally Posted by Core767

Bleedgreen, for once I agree with you. I totally agree with you on this issue. I don't even have to go any further in my explanation, because you've already said it.

I feel the same way as well but unfortunately the justice system is different. The reason I say we should be less tolerant is because of all the BS lawsuits that go on. There is no level of consistency among sexual harassment lawsuits. ERAC could be sued by a woman who goes along with all of the jokes because her defense is "I wanted to fit in". HORSESHIT, you call them out first time and thats that.

Originally Posted by slave no more

I feel the same way as well but unfortunately the justice system is different. The reason I say we should be less tolerant is because of all the BS lawsuits that go on. There is no level of consistency among sexual harassment lawsuits. ERAC could be sued by a woman who goes along with all of the jokes because her defense is "I wanted to fit in". HORSESHIT, you call them out first time and thats that.

That's your job as the manager, to make sure she wasn't just going along with it when it's in your office. I was referring to the service writers and bodymen in vendor harassment situations and how I handled it before I was a manager. I wasn't advocating that, as a manager, I would tell a woman to just deal with it. I'm giving my opinion as to how I WISH women would deal with it, and that's to confront the harasser and make it known you want it to stop without involving your manager or h/r.

But that's just me. I understand there are a lot of women that aren't that strong out there and would prefer to have their manager handle the situation...it just sucks for those managers and sucks in the long run for her because she's not earning any respect for being able to handle difficult situations on her own and will have that fun fact in her file.

Core767, I'm shocked! I'm reasonable...(sometimes.) ha ha.

[gp65:(]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

That's your job as the manager, to make sure she wasn't just going along with it when it's in your office. I was referring to the service writers and bodymen in vendor harassment situations and how I handled it before I was a manager. I wasn't advocating that, as a manager, I would tell a woman to just deal with it. I'm giving my opinion as to how I WISH women would deal with it, and that's to confront the harasser and make it known you want it to stop without involving your manager or h/r.

But that's just me. I understand there are a lot of women that aren't that strong out there and would prefer to have their manager handle the situation...it just sucks for those managers and sucks in the long run for her because she's not earning any respect for being able to handle difficult situations on her own and will have that fun fact in her file.

Core767, I'm shocked! I'm reasonable...(sometimes.) ha ha.

"Deal with it yourself". That's a great philosophy. I'll tell you what most women do- quit. Or go into admin like yourself.

I don't care if it "doesn't bother" a woman and if they can "deal with it". Constant harassment is tiring. It sucks when you have to have your guard up 13 hours a day. You men can disagree, but I've talked with numerous "strong" women who feel the same way. I've worked in other industries and this conduct is unheard of.